ALWAYS A PLEASURE: OUR 4TH INTERVIEW WITH DOE PAORO

interview by Michael McCarthy

Between the intros for our previous three interviews and the live show and album reviews I’ve done covering Doe Paoro and her wonderful music, I feel like I’ve written everything I could possibly say about her already. However, for those of you who are unfamiliar with her and her sound, let me just say that she’s an amazing singer-songwriter who never fails to wear her big heart on her sleeve. A few years ago, she released a remarkable album called After that found her singing over luscious electronic beats and soundscapes. Her new album, 2018’s equally praise-worthy Soft Power, is After’s opposite in many ways, being that it’s about as organic as any album could be, Doe singing over music that’s chiefly comprised of guitars, bass and drums. That said, Soft Power finds her continuing to sing lyrics that can be thought-provoking and open to interpretation as well those that are more direct and brutally honest. It’s the way that she mixes the two styles that makes her writing so clever. And regardless of what sort of album she’s made, her words are always insightful and reveal an artist who draws equally from her own life and the world around her. To say that she’s a deep person would be an understatement. I also happen to love that she’s as comfortable talking about meditation and reincarnation as she is about discussing her records, all of which are topics in the following interview. So, put your thinking caps on and listen to the tunes as you read on.

MM: Are you at home in Los Angeles today?

DP: Yes, I’m in Los Angeles. Are you in the Boston area?

MM: Yup, I’m in Dracut, which borders Lowell. Which, actually, I wanted to ask you something related to that. You had mentioned some of the Beat writers as being some of your favorite poets.

DP: The Beat writers, yeah.

MM: My town borders Lowell, which is where Jack Kerouac was born and where a lot of his books take place so I was just curious if you were a fan of his at all?

DP: Oh, cool. Yeah, I am. I’ve read On The Road a bunch of times. I think I read Dharma Bums when I was a lot younger.

MM: So, let’s talk about the new album, which you produced with Grammy-winner Jimmy Hogarth in London. Was that your first time working together?

DP: It was, yeah.

MM: How did you connect?

DP: I was in London about a year before we made the record together. And my manager had suggested I meet with him just to have a chat because I was looking for potential producers for my album. We met up and I just really liked him. Of course, I liked his work a lot, too, but one thing I look for when I’m about to go into an album with somebody is just do I feel super comfortable around them. Am I going to be comfortable expressing my vision or creative ideas and it was clear that that would be safe. That that was invited.

MM: Were you familiar with any of his previous work?

DP: I was. I mean, I’m a huge Amy Winehouse fan and, especially, that first record that he worked on I thought was really great.

MM: How did your production styles compliment each other?

DP: Well, he has a lot of vintage equipment. Like sort of analog. We recorded to tape. And I think he really understood what I was going for with this record. It’s definitely a departure from my last in terms of production. I was just looking for something a lot more like organic and warm, and just kind of classical in terms of highlighting song over production, and I feel like he was a perfect partner for that.

MM: I noticed in the credits that there are a few people that you wrote many of the songs with. So, I was wondering, did you approach this album more like you were writing an album for a band as opposed to a solo artist?

DP: Hmm. No, I think, when we wrote the arrangements it was definitely with a band in mind, but I was just writing for myself.

MM: How did you connect with your co-writers?

DP: Just all over. Some were friends. Some were people that I had written with on my previous record that I met when I was doing a songwriting retreat in Stockholm. Some my manager at the time had suggested that I write with and those were all really good recommendations.

MM: Did you write all the lyrics or did they collaborate on the lyrics at all?

DP: The lyrics, generally speaking, are pretty much mine. Here or there, somebody might suggest a word or a line, but I tend to write almost all of my lyrics. And then I write a lot of the melodies, too. I don’t really do much of the arrangement, I would say.

MM: Was writing songs with a few people more intimidating than writing songs with just one person?

DP: Well, actually, we weren’t writing in groups. These songs were all written just me and one other person.

MM: What does the new album’s title, Soft Power, mean to you?

DP: I think this one is definitely a reflection of the time that it was written in. I was observing the last few years sort of politically, the way that it seems like a lot of the people in power are there by force or greed or oppression and dominance. And it’s looking at nature and seeing that there’s another way – the way that nature in itself operates, which is with time and patience. I sort of put the power of time and calmness to work in sound. I think a lot about the ocean when I think about soft power. So, it represented that which I have hope in, in terms of power. I think the record itself is a lot about power dynamics. So, it’s sort of a hat-tip to that.

MM: The artists the album reminds me of are mostly like classics like Carole King and Stevie Nicks and Carly Simon. Were any of them influences?

DP: What an honor. Yeah. [Laughs] Definitely. I thought a lot about Carole King on this record. I love Tapestry. I tend to use her as an inspiration and definitely Stevie Nicks. I love Stevie Nicks. And I love Carly Simon, so I’m surely influenced somehow. But Carole King is probably the most directly. Because I was thinking that you should have a great record that’s really song based. Of course, there’s a lot happening production-wise on Tapestry, but to me the heart of it is just her and the piano. Her voice and the piano. And it’s enough.

MM: Are there any artists who influenced you on this album who hadn’t previously been influences?

DP: Let me think here… I’m just thinking kind of a lot of older influences who came to the forefront more that I’ve always been influenced by like Carole King and Laura Nyro. There’s some Jeff Buckley on there. Some Portishead. In ways, some Nina Simone. Those have been consistent influences for me that are maybe just more apparent on this record.

MM: Just out of curiosity, are you a fan of Kate Bush or Tori Amos?

DP: Oh, OK, you nailed it for me! There was one person who I really got introduced to when I was making this record and, obviously, that was Kate Bush. I don’t think she would’ve been on my other records because I really didn’t know her music before this one. Yeah, she was a big influence on this record.

MM: Ah, cool. I’d only heard a few of their albums but hadn’t really gotten into them, but more recently I’ve been checking them out again and finding that I like them both quite a bit.

DP: Yeah, I love Tori. I grew up and Tori Amos just was on the radio and stuff. She’s written some pretty epic songs that definitely I return to.

MM: The album begins with “Over,” but then you have “Cage of Habits,” which I think uses the word over even more than the song called “Over.” Did you place them back to back because of that?

DP: Not really. I kind of wanted “Cage of Habits” to be the first song and other people obviously had some creative ideas. There was basically like a creative discussion about which one of those should go first and we ended up just putting them back to back.

MM: When I listen to the album, the two songs almost kind of blend into one, like a two-part progressive song. Just out of curiosity, were they written back to back by any chance?

DP: No. I started writing the lyrics to “Cage of Habits” probably four years ago. I mean, just a few lines and then it was one of those songs that I kind of just kept carrying around with me, being like one day I’m gonna find the right pocket for this. And so I sort of fleshed it out, but later on. “Over,” I wrote kind of in a day probably in 2015 or ’16, I think.

MM: I can’t tell if you were going for either a Motown-inspired sound or a Phil Spector girl group sound on that one. Were either, or both of those sounds, influences on that?

DP: Yeah, I think so. I think for sure they’re influences on all of my work. I really have a lot of respect for the Motown sound and everything.

MM: If you had to cover a Motown song today, what do you think you’d do?

DP: Oh my gosh, I don’t know. I’ve been very obsessed with “Stop! In the Name of Love” recently for some reason that I can’t quite think of. I’d have to give that more thought.

MM: What’s the inspiration behind “Loose Plans”? Is there a particular story behind it?

DP: Yeah, there is. You know, it’s a story about me going back to New York and giving a second try to somebody I’d had a very long relationship with for many years in my 20s. It’s a story about returning to that 10-years-later and being like, you know, this just doesn’t work. The final acceptance of that.

MM: I especially love the song “Together Apart.” The chorus gives me the impression that it’s about when you’ve in a relationship and you feel alone even when you’re with the person, but the final verse gives me the impression that it’s the opposite, that it’s about how you’re always with someone even when you’re separated because you’re so close. So, what is it about?

DP: I think it’s definitely the second interpretation. Actually, it’s a platonic love song in a lot of ways. I wrote it about a friend of mine and just the idea that I don’t want to miss people because they exist in my heart somehow. If they’re really in the inner circle. They’re with me all the time. Their spirit is with me. And I would hope it would be the same. And the idea that we really are – even if we’re living separate lives – we are together if we’re truly connected in that way.

MM: I was curious, on that note, do you believe in soulmates?

DP: Hmm. I think I do believe in soulmates. I think I believe in many soulmates in your life. Like a soulmate connection, to me, becomes very clear. It’s something very different than other connections that you have. But I don’t know that we just get one. What about you? What do you think?

MM: I like the idea that we have many. That some of them are just meant to be friends, some of them are meant to be more, and they usually come into and out of your life when you need them. Like some might serve a purpose and help you realize something, but then a year later you’re no longer in touch. That type of thing, I guess. If that makes any sense.

DP: Yeah, I think so. I mean, in a lot of ways, I think sometimes you do fall out of touch after a certain lesson has been passed on. They’re the relationships that teach us the deepest lessons, I think.

MM: On another note, who is the actress who stars in the video for “Over”?

DP: Her name is Carolina Bàrriga.

MM: Was the video for “Over” filmed at your place?

DP: It was not. It was filmed at a friend of the director’s in Echo Park.

MM: So, were all of the trinkets and things that we see in the video his?

DP: Yes, exactly.

MM: How come the video for “Cage of Habits” is only half the song long?

DP: Originally, we were just doing a quick Instagram visualizer. Like the idea was to make a 30 second video of the song. And I filmed it on a day off when I was on tour in Dallas with this guy Austin Roa, who’s in Texas. So, it wasn’t intended to be a full video and then there was just a vibe between us and we both thought we got some interesting footage that would make a longer video worth watching. So, we did with what we got, but we didn’t have quite enough for a full video.

MM: You released a cover of “Blind” by Hercules + Love Affair last December. Why did you release a single that’s not on the new album?

DP: The record had already been produced and mastered and was in production. That song had kind of been in my mind for a while and I just sort of became obsessed with it. I think sometimes songs take a while to fully bubble up to what they are. But then I approached the head of the record label and asked, “Hey, I have this vision for this. Can we do this as just like a one-off?” And they liked it.

MM: What, in particular, about the song made you want to cover it?

DP: It’s just so, for me, quite haunting. I love it as a fast song. I always have. But when you stop and listen to the lyrics it’s this kind of celestial, beautiful portrait of what it is to be a child in an adult with a celestial existence on earth. I just think it has all the components of what make me feel like there’s magic in the world.

MM: Is that home video footage mostly yours?

DP: Yeah, yeah, a lot. It’s on my phone.

MM: In the beginning, we see the baby in the bathtub and shortly thereafter it looks like that’s you in the bathroom with the baby. Is that you?

DP: Yeah. It’s on my phone because my mom had sent it to me. It was from VHS footage from probably about 1990. That’s me and my little brother.

MM: Is that you doing the ballet dancing on the lawn?

DP: No, that’s a friend of mine. Darrian O’Reilly.

MM: I also noticed the Dump Trump sign in the video, which made me happy.

DP: Yeah, I was in London. The video, for me, is so personal. It’s all these moments from the time I was making the record. I was in London when he was elected. I was in London protesting. As the rest of the world was protesting.

MM: The thing I keep thinking right now is that it ought to be illegal, or unconstitutional, for anyone to shut down the government, even the President.

DP: It’s so horrible. That’s really upsetting.

MM: You’ve released a few collaborations with other artists in the past. Have you done any recently?

DP: I’ve been working on some music with Son Little again. We’ve been writing together. But nothing lately. I just got off a long tour, and putting out this record, so I’m kind of just getting back into writing and making my own stuff.

MM: These days a lot of artists have rappers guest on their tracks, like in the middle eight, is that something you could ever see yourself doing or do you think that would clash with your sound too much?

DP: No, I’d be open to it. When I first put out my first record we put out the stems to this song on the record called “Born Whole,” which you’ve probably heard me perform live. I’ve actually heard a lot of rappers take it off and do their own version of it, which was pretty cool.

MM: If you could have any rapper out there guest on your next album, who would you want to work with?

DP: What a question. Hmm. I really like Chance The Rapper. Or Cardi B. I think that would be fun.

MM: Oh, yeah, she would be fun. For some reason, the two I was thinking would fit best, just based on their collaborations with other people, would be A$AP Rocky or Gucci Mane.

DP: Oh, cool. I met A$AP Rocky once many years ago and I really liked him.

MM: Last time you mentioned that you’re someone who doesn’t thrive in big groups. So, I was wondering, what’s the largest crowd you would feel comfortable playing to? In other words, could you do a huge festival with a hundred thousand people like Glastonbury?

DP: Yes, of course. I’m sure I could summon it up. I’d be thrilled to play a huge venue. I just think there’s definitely something, like my introvert comes out when being in a crowd for sure.

MM: We spoke about meditating in our last interview, but I didn’t think to ask you if there’s a certain type of meditating that you’re most fond of?

DP: I do Vipassanā mediation.

MM: Do you prefer meditating alone as opposed to in a group setting?

DP: I actually love meditating in a group just because it holds me accountable. But I like to just mediate alone and do my own thing as opposed to a visualization.

MM: We’ve talked about reincarnation a couple of times, but I’ve never thought to ask you if you remember anything from any of your past lives?

DP: No, I don’t, really. I can’t say that I’ve had a clear experience of that. But I do believe in it.

MM: What do you think of past life regression therapy where they put you in a hypnotic state and try to have you recall your past lives?

DP: Oh my gosh, I mean, I’m super open to that possibility that that could happen. I’ve never tried it and I would be curious to. Have you tried it?

MM: No, I haven’t, but I read a book by such a therapist, Brian Weiss – he’s actually an MD – and he wrote about people recalling specific things from their past lives that they knew nothing about in their current lives and would’ve had no other way of knowing. So, that’s pretty interesting.

DP: Yeah, I believe in it.

MM: Do you believe in Gods or a God or a Goddess or a certain type of higher power?

DP: Definitely, I do, yeah.

MM: What would you –

DP: What do I believe in?

MM: Well, do you call God the name God or do you say Goddess – what is the word that you use in your mind?

DP: I was just raised with the word God so that’s what comes to me, like most intuitively. As I’ve gotten older, sometimes I’ll feel like a spirit. A great spirit. Because the thing I like about – at least the way I was taught about religion – is that I thought God was this entity in the sky and we were all just on earth. What I sort of like about transitioning into thinking about God as this great spirit is that I think the word spirit implies that it’s all around you. And it’s sort of animated and in the earth. Something like that helps me conceptualize it. And be like, you know, the spirit is talking. I feel like I can connect more with spirituality everywhere in animals and plants and the way nature is responding to things and the different signs that that gives.

MM: I’m a witch so that kind of falls into what –

DP: – I know you are! [Laughs] That’s why I always love our catch ups because we get to witch out together.

MM: It’s interesting – I was raised Catholic and you’re taught about the holy trinity, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. And, growing up, they talk about God and Jesus, but they don’t really talk about the Holy Spirit that much, so it’s always been this mystery to me. I don’t like the Catholic Church as an institution because of the way they’ve covered up things and all that type of stuff, but I do pray to Catholic Saints, and usually the prayers are answered, so I think there’s something to that. But I’ve also read this book called The Christian Witch’s Handbook where they describe how many or most of the Saints could’ve been witches. Powerful witches, but witches nonetheless. Joan of Arc was a witch. And, obviously, she was one of the greatest Saints.

DP: Yeah. I also grew up Jewish and I think there are really a lot of things that I like about Judaism that I carry with me into how I make sense of the world. But then there are other things that I think I’ve just been able to pick up along the way that make sense for me. I feel like most religions preach really amazing things and then it’s just the dogmatic aspect of it that can kind of turn me off. The organized aspect of it.

MM: What do you make of astrology?

DP: I think astrology is a really fun guide. My sister and I have studied it and there’s a lot more precise science to it that I don’t know. I know a fair amount, but I find it useful because it helps me have some sort of expectations or leniency if I know someone – every sign has its things that are…

MM: Strengths and weaknesses?

DP: Exactly! Strengths and weaknesses. If I know somebody is a particular sign I can be like, you know this thing is going to come up so it’s not their fault. [Laughs] It’s the stars. For me, that’s where I find astrology most helpful. Just in giving some sort of acceptance about the way things are. What’s your birthday?

MM: My birthday is August 10^th.

DP: You’re a Leo.

MM: Yup. What are you?

DP: I’m a Virgo. We’re right back to back.

MM: I know you’re not a witch, but do you believe there’s power in magick like the sort brought forth in spells?

DP: I don’t really know much. I don’t know a ton about spells. I actually just bought a book on this by Damien Echols. He has this new book that’s called High Magick. I don’t know. I can’t say because I haven’t practiced. But I believe that what you believe is what happens. If you believe something might work, it will probably work. The power of the mind is so incredible in that way. We really do become what we believe. Do you believe in spells? Or is that something you practice?

MM: I do. I think some of it is magick and I think like what you were saying, that by focusing on something and doing a ritual and believing you’ll get some result, you almost like draw that toward you. Like I’ve been reading and watching Youtube videos about manifesting things lately, which I find pretty interesting. So, I’m actually trying to do that right now. We’ll see if it works.

DP: I really think it works. The more I sort of go into all of this stuff, the more I see that what we believe on a root level or even a conscious level is the way our lives tend to drive. When you have situations that repeat over and over again. I think it’s a healthy thing to ask what is my belief that kind of could be motivating this repeated circumstance.

MM: Do you believe there’s power in colors and/or crystals?

DP: I do believe color therapy works. And I think there’s something to crystals. I know there is. I started wearing a black tourmaline when I was working a job that dealt a lot with people. It was a people job. I had to work with people a lot. And I noticed when I was wearing black tourmaline people were not as easy to get me [upset]. I didn’t feel much negativity. I felt like I had a strong sense of armor up. What do you think about colors?

MM: I’m not entirely sure what I think about colors, but I definitely believe in crystals. I do believe in colors insofar as a lot of the spells I do are simple candle magick and certain colors are used for certain types of spells and in certain combinations and stuff. So, I guess I do believe that there’s power in colors in that sense. But definitely with crystals, too. I had a bad experience with someone in the past – it will give me a panic attack if I start saying everything they did – but there were threats and blackmail and it was just insane and I often felt like she was putting hexes on me. Because she had threatened to do that. And my father gave me this ring. It’s a gold ring with a black onyx stone on it and that repels evil and curses and since I started wearing that I don’t feel like she has any type of influence or hold on me anymore, as if it’s somehow shielding me from that.

DP: Yeah, I think crystals can be protective. And people will laugh about it, but then I’m like, try working with one and see if you notice a difference. Because there’s a lot to them.

MM: The only thing I question is how some witches or new age type people will say you need this crystal for this and another crystal for that and so they would give you a bag with like eight different crystals in it for you to wear or carry on you. And my feeling is just that, don’t some of these contradict each other? If there is some yet to be understood science behind them, wouldn’t some of them cancel each other out, you know? So, that’s the only thing I find a little bit sketchy is that they never get into that possibility. If that makes any sense.

DP: Yeah. I think there’s a lot of mixing of traditions, which is part of the age of the internet where people have an overabundance of other ideas, lineages, whatever, that they didn’t previously have. They’re like, OK, I can choose this and I can pick and mix it around and why not? If I have all this abundance of crystals and all this abundance of religions. I’m not sure. I tend to choose teachers who follow really specific lineages. Like somebody like my yoga master teacher in Indian and a Shaman I worked with in Peru. They’re very much respecting one’s lineage and they don’t kind of choose around. And I see that happening with people in the spiritual community, just mixing many traditions and kind of creating their own philosophy. But, for me, I think something might be lost in that.

MM: For me, I guess I do kind of pick and choose things. I identify as a witch but pray to Catholic Saints.

DP: Yeah, and I guess I do, too, even in how I approach religion. But, yeah, it’s interesting what you say about the crystals, though.

MM: I really want to study up on Buddhism and Hinduism at some point, too.

DP: Yeah. Maybe at some point you can do a vipassana retreat. They’re free. And there’s one in Massachusetts. A really great center in in Shelburne, Massachusetts.

MM: Yeah, we talked about those a bit last time. You had just done ten days at Joshua Tree. Have you done another one since?

DP: I haven’t. I’ve been thinking about it quite a bit. I like to go up there once a year. So, maybe, sometime this year. I would like to go. I can see myself going that way.

MM: You had mentioned that you get song ideas from them sometimes. You’d mentioned that “Growth/Decay” was an example of that. Are you allowed to write things down there?

DP: Nooo! Which is so frustrating. They really want you to shut off that part of your mind that is productive, or seeking, or distracted, from anything else other than just dealing with your mind’s consciousness. Because that’s what you’re there to do. I guess you’ve gotta trust that if the idea is good enough it’s gonna come back. That it won’t be so fleeting.

MM: See, I have a memory problem, which could be because of my bipolar meds or something else, but it’s hard to say what the cause is because I can’t come off my meds. But with my memory I could get the greatest idea for a book that I’ve ever had and two days later it’s completely forgotten if I haven’t written it down. So, having that problem makes me compelled to write things down as soon as I get an idea.

DP: Yeah, I can see how that would maybe change your situation a bit.

MM: You had mentioned wanting to publish a book of poems as being something on your bucket list last time –

DP: – It is, yeah.

MM: Have you been working on that at all?

DP: I know I’m going to publish a book of poems someday, but it’s like I have a very mystical relationship with poems. I never force them and they come to me maybe like – I’ll maybe write two poems a year, to be honest. So, I just write them down and I regularly go back and read them and edit them. Maybe in ten or fifteen years I’ll have a proper book but it’s a long process for me, I think.

MM: When you sit down and write something do you say, “OK, I’m going to write a song now” or do you just sit down and start writing and maybe it turns into a song or maybe it turns into a poem?

DP: I don’t know. It’s changing a lot. My process is changing as I am. It’s different if I get inspired with a song idea. I’ll sit down and write a lot of lyrics and I’m not gonna be too precious about it. I just want to see what comes out. But if I’m writing a poem, I get extremely precious about every word and lyric and I’d probably do well to write my songs like I write my poems but when you have the added difficulty of making it sound melodic for music some words are hard to sing and there’s all these other questions that come up. So, I’m able, I think, to be a little more free with my music in a way that my poems I can just really obsess over.

MM: In 2014 when we talked a little bit about poetry you mentioned that you were getting into somebody named Rupi Kaur.

DP: Oh, yeah.

MM: And now she’s like the most popular poet on the planet. Did you ever imagine that she would get this popular?

DP: I mean, I don’t know. There are so many great artists who never get the recognition. Somebody can be incredible but people don’t know about them or their work doesn’t get that spotlight. Something I learned about Rupi Kaur because I bought a book of her poems for a friend and the friend of mine was like I don’t really support her. She said that Rupi Kaur ripped off this other poet, who was doing things in a similar style first named Nayyirah Waheed, which I didn’t know about and I love Nayyirah Waheed’s work, too, and when I happened [to learn] that it changed the way I felt a bit. I think it’s hard to copyright artistic ideas, but I think even Nayyirah Waheed had posted about it at one point when somebody copies your work, or gets influenced by it, you generally know because you know your artistic blueprint.

MM: Like how you’ll hear your voice in somebody else’s.

DP: Yeah. There’s part of it that’s like, of course, imitation is the greatest form of flattery, but there’s part of it that’s like, this is all I have are my ideas and I want to be known for them. I don’t know enough about that conflict, but that kind of changed my opinion of the whole thing.

MM: I’ll have to check out Nayyirah.

DP: She’s great. She’s fantastic.

MM: Last time we talked I asked you about reiki and you weren’t sure what you thought about it yet, but I read the Voyage LA interview and you said that you teach reiki now.

DP: I got certified.

MM: How’d you get into that?

DP: I mean, I think it was one of those things that I’d been thinking about for a long time. And part of it was, too, that I had a lot of problems with my hands over the last few years. My wrists are pretty weak and I had some cysts come up and I had to have surgery and I was doing a lot of energy work and meditating and thinking about what the hands represent, learning about them, that on an energetic level the hands are sort of where you manifest from, and how you give and receive, and there’s a lot of healing that can be done with the hands. And I was learning about reiki and how sensitive I can be to that. So, basically, I started a teaching course to learn more about it. To give reiki. And I do think there’s something to it.

MM: I was reading about it online because I wanted to know more about it and it sounded more like people putting their hands above you or on you and doing energy work, but the type that my friend does involves making these Japanese symbols in the air and I don’t know if that’s a particular type. I know the Japanese reiki was invented by Mikao Usui. Do you have to make to make kanji in the air with the type you do?

DP: Yeah, exactly, there are certain symbols that you’re supposed to make while you’re doing it. And I’m still learning. I just got certified a few months ago. I’m still practicing. But the idea is really that that anyone can give reiki and we can all tap into that natural [healing]. We’re all pretty sensitive to energy.

MM: I’ll ask you one last thing. You mentioned studying plant medicines last time and I was just wondering if there are any particular plants that you’re fond of using and, if so, what do you use them to treat?

DP: I use plants all the time. I mean, for different things. Like I use different teas and I work with cocao, which is the chocolate thing I do. I am constantly working with different plants and I’ve participated in other Shamanic traditional uses of plants.

MM: What do you think about marijuana and its medicinal properties?

DP: I think it works for a lot of people. I think it’s a great pain reliever. I haven’t worked too much with marijuana because I’m pretty sensitive to the psychoactive aspects of it. I’m curious to work a bit more with CBD and see how that goes.

MM: I just tried that over the weekend. I thought it was going to help my pain, but what it also did that I wasn’t expecting was that it actually really mellowed me out like I had taken a Valium or something. I was very surprised by that since they’re much more legal than anything with THC. I figured that the CBDs wouldn’t have any psychoactive properties to it at all. I thought it was going to be like taking Tylenol or something so I was really surprised. And it was actually really pleasant. Have you tried it yet?

DP: I had tried like one [time], but I haven’t really tapped into it. I need to work with it a bit more and see what I notice. Because I was kind of on the run that day. I feel like I need to take time to observe and see how things shift for you. Or if they shift for you.

MM: Oh, there’s one more thing I wanted to ask. Have you and ANTI- talked about doing another album together yet?

DP: Yeah. That’s gonna be the question. We’re definitely gonna do another song and I love working with ANTI- and I think that they represent music in a way that I feel aligned with. So, we’ll see what comes for the next record. I’m focusing on writing new songs right now and there’s one I know we’re going to produce in the next few months that I’ll put out with them.

Special thanks to Doe for taking the time to speak with me yet again!

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Follow photographer Enrico Policardo on Instagram: @cardopoli